In season two of Criminal Record, rival police officers Detective Chief Inspector Daniel Hegarty (Peter Capaldi) and Detective Sergeant June Lenker (Cush Jumbo) join forces after a young man is killed at a political rally. But what starts as a tentative alliance as they hunt for the murderer soon shifts to an undercover operation to stop a bomb plot in London.

This season the relationship is less antagonistic between Hegarty and Lenker. According to Capaldi, who recently spoke with SciFi Vision, that shift is partially due to Hegarty needing her help on a current case. “[L]ast season delved into the past,” he explained. “…This season is a happening case. It's an actually live case that they have to deal with, which is getting more dangerous day by day, and he actually needs June to help him.”

“[H]e does have a respect for her as a cop and knows how good she is,” he added, saying that, regardless, he isn’t interested in becoming her friend.

According to Jumbo, for Lenker, it’s because of her reaction to a murder she witnessed. “She feels so incredibly guilty about it and so disappointed in herself having allowed it to happen that I think she'll do anything to try to kind of seek justice for him, even if it means annoyingly having to work with Hegarty again,” Jumbo told the site.

As such, Hegarty is able to use things to his advantage and manipulate her. “I just try and give her a version of the truth, which works in my favor,” said Capaldi. “…He's somebody who is following his own agenda, but he's really good at what he does.

“[He] has to figure out what sacrifices have to be made, who has to be thrown under the bus in order to achieve the result he wants,” he continued, adding that he’s happy to throw Lenker under the bus if that’s what it takes.

Although Lenker follows his lead pretty quickly, she’s aware of what he’s up to after having worked with him before. “[Y]ou have to accept that every decision he makes might be three or four or five steps in another direction,” said Jumbo. “Some of those steps could help you, and some of them might not, but fighting this battle right now won't get you any further to where you want to be. So, I think, in that moment, she makes a decision that's about there must be a reason why he's so desperate for this to happen, and although I'm suspicious, I have a much longer game to play.”

For more, including what the characters taught them about themselves, watch the interview and read the full transcript below. The first episode is now available on Apple TV.




SCIFI VISION:   To start off, talk about the shift in their relationship this season, because they obviously start off in a very different place this season than they did last season. It's not so antagonistic. We'll just go Peter then, Cush.

PETER CAPALDI:   Well, I think that the big difference between last season and this season is, last season delved into the past. So, June was digging around in Hegarty’s past and finding some unpleasant things in there. This season is a happening case. It's an actually live case that they have to deal with, which is getting more dangerous day by day, and he actually needs June to help him. He has no interest in becoming friends with her, or that they should become buddies or anything like that, but he does have a respect for her as a cop and knows how good she is. And the threat that he's dealing with is growing and he needs her. So, that's a different dynamic, but it's good, because he has to keep her on side. He has to respect what she has to say, even though he might be fuming about it.

CUSH JUMBO:   Yeah, I think June has risen up the ranks slightly and is riding pretty high until the really tragic murder of this young kid in episode one. She feels so incredibly guilty about it and so disappointed in herself having allowed it to happen that I think she'll do anything to try to kind of seek justice for him, even if it means annoyingly having to work with Hegarty again. But she knows him now and she knows the pitfalls, or she thinks she knows the pitfalls, so she hopes that she's prepared, but of course she isn't.

SCIFI VISION:   Peter, talk a bit about sort of his, I wanna say manipulation tactics, to get her to go along with letting Billy go in the beginning, because I was kind of surprised that she went along with it so easy, and Cush, were you surprised is the other question.

PETER CAPALDI:   My manipulation tactics?

SCIFI VISION:   [laughs] Yes.

PETER CAPALDI:   I just try and tell it. I just try and give her a version of the truth, which works in my favor, which is not unlike the theme of the whole thing. He's somebody who is following his own agenda, but, you know, he's really good at what he does. And he actually has in this instance, a higher calling, you know, and it's something that he's probably done all of his life, or was from when he wised up or when he was beaten up enough to realize that life wasn't fair. [He] has to figure out what sacrifices have to be made, who has to be thrown under the bus in order to achieve the result he wants, and the result he wants is often about public safety. It is about protecting people, and in this instance, the threat is very big. So, he's prepared quite happily to throw her under the bus if that's what he needs to do. Although we don’t have that scene. [laughs]

CUSH JUMBO:   [laughs] It’s all in his head, although we don't have that scene. but of course you can see it on the screen. I think that by now, because of the past, working with Hegarty, alongside Hegarty, being in a room with Hegarty, June realizes is a lot like existing in The Truman Show. It's not what you think it is. And once you know that the other world is going on beyond where you are, you have to accept that every decision he makes might be three or four or five steps in another direction. Some of those steps could help you, and some of them might not, but fighting this battle right now won't get you any further to where you want to be. So, I think, in that moment, she makes a decision that's about there must be a reason why he's so desperate for this to happen, and although I'm suspicious, I have a much longer game to play. And knowing him well enough to know that some part of it will be truthful, she'll get to where she wants to go if she keeps pushing. So, I think, she's just got a lot better at being like, “Let's go backstage and then we'll talk about it,” because right now whatever's happening here isn't really the true, the real story, you know?

SCIFI VISION:   Yeah, that makes sense. Is there anything that your characters taught you each about yourselves since you started [this]?

PETER CAPALDI:   I think that Hegarty taught me to try and be a little more subdued, to try and develop a poker face. I don't really have a poker face.

CUSH JUMBO:   [laughs] You don't.

PETER CAPALDI:   So, he taught me that I can actually, I can actually stop people knowing exactly what I'm thinking just by looking at me. I can draw a veil over me, I hope. Does that make any sense?

CUSH JUMBO:   It does kind of make sense, yeah.

PETER CAPALDI:   Because I don't really do that.

CUSH JUMBO:   No.

PETER CAPALDI:   But I've learned to do that. Beware.

CUSH JUMBO:   I think June is a classic character that, you know, she's always on the brink of burnout, essentially. And I don't think you have to be doing a superhero job like being a police woman to do that as a woman. I think women are burned out all the time.

So, I mean, I feel exhausted sometimes in my daily life but then I do June for the day, and I'm like, “Come on June, mate, take a break.” Like, what the hell? Just let the baddies win for once. But you know, she can't, she just can't, and that's why I'm so proud of her. I really admire the kind of utter commitment to truth and justice that she has. I find it quite inspiring.

SCIFI VISION:   All right, great. Well, thank you so much, both of you. I appreciate it. And I just have to say really quick, 12 is my favorite [Doctor], and you're absolutely brilliant in “Heaven Sent,” my favorite episode ever of Doctor Who. So, just wanted to say that.

PETER CAPALDI:   So kind of you. Thank you for having me.

SCIFI VISION:   Thanks both of you. Have a good day. Bye-bye.